Highlights

Transcript

Jon Brouchoud:
Welcome to episode 49 of Acadicus Simulation Pulse Live. We have Bill Ballo, Rick Casteel, and Mitch Luker joining us as well. And today we do not have a specific topic. We wanted to keep this one open. We’ll just have some open office hours, and anybody that wants to jump in and ask us questions, that’s fine. Otherwise, we’re just going to sit here and talk about all things VR simulation. What’s going on? What’s new? What’s coming up? What are we thinking? You know, we’re kind of at the end of the summer; semesters are starting up. We’re getting a lot of notifications from schools that are scheduling simulations and getting their fall semester lined up. So that’s kind of where we’re at.

Bill Ballo:
Yeah, that’s the position I’m in at the moment is fall semester and watching it all fall in line. Respiratory therapy has just scheduled—they just scheduled like four Sims with us. Wow. Yeah, just in the first couple of months too. So yeah, so that’s going to be interesting. And I’m sort of finally running into that, you know, wall of, I have someone who wants to do a simulation at Truax on a day that I’m already doing a simulation up at Reedsburg.

Jon Brouchoud:
And you can’t be in two places at once.

Bill Ballo:
That’s it. So we’re working on getting a training together for new faculty or new part-time sim techs, essentially. So, you know, Simulation has got their sim techs, and they’re kind of like, hey, don’t go stealing our people. We need them enough as it is. And so we’re going to be looking to bring some people on board to be sim techs. And then they’re going to go through a training, and we’re going to do sort of the hardware and then the software. The software is really the easy part. Like learning how to use Acadicus as a sim tech, that’s really easy. But the little troubleshooting things. Oh, the computer, you know, the other day I went to start it up and my computer didn’t like it. And my computer was like, no, we’re not starting Acadicus today. And, uh, you know, I had to, I had to kind of do a restart on the computer and finally got that to go. And then the computer was like, okay, we can do Acadicus. So, you know, just minor stuff like that, you know, just little troubleshooting issues. And, and then, uh, the other thing, um, Well, that’s a different story. But yeah, but right now, mainly just getting our training program together because we’re also expanding out to our Reedsburg campus and our Watertown campus. And then scouting the campuses to figure out what rooms are going to be best and how can we set up and not impact the regular educational process and the rooms that we already are using, that kind of stuff. So that’s kind of what’s going on mainly in our world.

Jon Brouchoud:
That’s great. I appreciate you sharing that with us. And I think that’s an important point. I just actually had a conversation with one of our customers. I’ll just let them remain anonymous, I guess. But, you know, the idea of how important it is for a school to have a technician that’s assigned to specifically running XR. And we run up against this all the time where programs, you know, they see VR, you know, they’ve maybe tried a VR headset, and they see it as kind of a video game, you know, like this is something that just is, you know, you set it, forget it, put the headset on. We’ve covered that, I think, ad nauseam here on Sim Pulse, where, you know, there’s a difference between live simulation like we support with VR, versus pre-programmed, you know, canned scenarios that just kind of teach the students. So covering that already, but like, I think if you’re going to facilitate it, you need somebody like you would with any traditional simulation. Simulation has SimTechs, you know, they even have their whole conference, you know, the SimGhosts conference dedicated specifically to the technicians that are required to run mannequins. And I think people think of VR as something where you don’t need that. And a lot of schools come to VR and they’re looking for something that they can just set up some VR headsets and have the students go in and they don’t want to assign any faculty and they don’t want to assign a technician. And they see that as a detriment. Like, well, then why would we invest in VR if we have to have staff running it, you know? And I think time after time after time, we see this happen where when programs come to this and they sit back and they’re like, what’s it going to do for me? And just kind of wait for the program to teach the students and they don’t want to have an active role in being an instructor anymore. I think VR in general, even if you’re using a pre-programmed solution, is going to go clunk. You’re not going to get the most leverage out of it. You’re not going to get the most mileage out of your investment. But we also see time and time again, programs that do make the investment of having staff resources that are dedicated to XR, these programs just blow up overnight. They literally, I hear it all the time, we set up a lab, we’ve got a technician in there, we’ve got somebody that knows how to run these headsets, they’re running simulations. That way instructors can go and book time with that person to get a better understanding of how it works. They don’t have to be the ones worrying about updating computers and making sure the graphics cards are updated and making sure the play areas are all established. You know, you want the instructors to be able to come in and have XR be the easy button. And in order for that to happen, you have to have dedicated staff. So I don’t know if you guys have any thoughts on that, but I think that’s an important topic that people are still missing that, you know, they just want to just, you know, and make a small investment and walk away and hopefully it just works. But I think you get to think about VR like it’s high fidelity simulation. And just like you do with your mannequins, you’re going to need technicians.

Rick Casteel:
Well, and I was there when EMRs first started, right, that’s how I first got involved in IT and in working with technology. And, you know, we, we grew it from, you know, six people at one of our community hospitals to eventually it having to be 40 people, you know, because you’re, you have to support it. You have to be able to respond. It has to work if, if you’re going to rely on it for a mission critical. Me, you know, like we, we do with EMRs today. And so, yeah, you, you have to dedicate the team to, to making it work. and owning that portion and being able to respond when instructors need support or help or something repaired. And when I onboard new organizations, that’s one of the first things, who’s your technical team? Who’s your IT rep? I want to talk to them, right? I want to interface with them. I want them to know that they can reach out to me so that they can have the resource they need because, you know, these, these headsets, right? This, this is new to it. This is a new gadget now that they have to figure out and add to their list of, you know, servers and switches and wireless and PCs and monitors that they now have to take care of. And so to them too.

Mitch Luker:
When it goes back to, you’re going to get out of it, what you put into it, if you’re putting into it a small amount of money and here do it and you’re not going to get much out of it. It’s, you know, by investing some time, investing a person, you’re going to get way more out of it because you’re going to have passion. And I mean, we’ve seen what it’s like when you have an instructor who has no passion for teaching and computers have no passion. Right. Yes, exactly. They don’t, they, they do what they’re programmed to do. And, um, you know, like I think about the students that I work with right now and I had one today say, like, I can tell how much you care about this because you make it fun. You make it enjoyable. You give us these things to think about. And, you know, there it’s they feel that difference. And that’s why we’re seeing the numbers we’re seeing with students liking it and using it. And and I have more and more students who are like, I want to do this more. I want more. I want more. other educational experiences do you have students say, can I do more? Right, right. And that’s because you have to have someone that cares about it and makes it something that they want to do.

Rick Casteel:
Right. I mean, that’s why you and Bill are here, right? I mean, because you’re the champions in your organization for, for kind of leading the charge about how important this is and how valuable it is and what’s possible. And saluting you both, I mean, certainly, but each organization needs that person or those, hopefully that group of people who are invested in the success of the program. You know, because like Jon has said, we’ve unfortunately been in cases where, you know, we’ve gone and done implementations and then we get a call, you know, or an email a year later going, Well, gee, you know, our team’s turned over and, you know, we really haven’t used this in a year, but we’re, you know, we’ve got new people. Well, here it is. It sat for a year. Nobody’s touched it and nobody’s owned it and championed it as, as a, you know, an objective of the organization, that this is something that’s going to work. And until you get that level of, I think, investment, it’s going to flounder a bit. I agree with you a hundred percent, Mitch.

Jon Brouchoud:
Absolutely. And I’ve always been so eager to just get Acadicus into the hands of these organizations that it’s sort of like, hey, whatever it takes, like whatever, however you’re going to implement it, just, you know, figuring that they’ll work it out. I think I’m at a point now where I’m borderline to the point where I think I could put on our requirements for Acadicus that you have to have a technician. Like, if you don’t have somebody that’s going to support the hardware and help work with other instructors, this is not going to work. And I’m not interested in working with organizations that aren’t going to make that investment, because it’s only going to pull them back. Like, it’s not going to help anything. And we’ve seen over and over again, when they make that investment, and they have the personnel to support it, how much value they get. Those are the organizations I want to work with the ones that are that are going to see that tremendous ROI on their investment and they come back to it and they just and it’s not like I say it explodes. It literally happens every single time like I’ve never seen it not work. You know, I’ve never seen it not work where you if you’ve got a lab and you’ve got somebody in there that’s running it and You know, the vet tech program comes in and they want to try it out and you know, they know where how to load a scene and they know how to find the content and maybe even build a little scene to help show them what’s possible. That’s when it’s just going to go. Oh, you know what I could do. Oh, you know what I could do. What about this? What about that? And even beyond just Acadicus, looking at other software, there’s all kinds of great VR educational software. This person can be in there looking at all those applications. Bill’s talked a lot about, you know, some of the foreign language studies and all the other programs you can do. And it just has all this value and the students get all excited about it. If you’re not willing to do that, I just don’t think you should buy Acadicus. I mean, I know that it’s not something you’re going to hear from most CEOs at this point, but I think I’m interested in providing very tangible real world value. And you’re not going to find that if you don’t support the software.

Bill Ballo:
It’s really the only way to grow your program too. There’s a capital investment, there’s a people investment, there’s a time investment. There are a lot of investments upfront that at times you may look at and go, and I did it too, where you go, I’m not 100% sure we’re gonna get back what we’re putting in. You will. You absolutely will. And you’re going to get it back way more than you expect to. Because what happened with us is we started out, I mean, I started out just using this in EMS as a lecture tool, not even as a simulation tool. I didn’t even, initially, I didn’t even look at it as a simulation tool. I looked at it as more of a lecture tool. And it was also one of the drivers for me when I finally did start to look at it more as a simulation tool. It was one of the drivers for me that had me saying, I want to keep this apart from simulation. And I did get a lot of resistance to that early on, but I think the people that were resistant to it, they also kind of came along and went, Oh, right, because if I take it and I bring it into simulation, which is very focused on our medical simulation, then the other people aren’t going to go like architecture, disability resources, Spanish, all of our language learning, all that stuff that we do, HVAC, those kind of things. They would have never really looked at it because they would have thought, well, we’re going to go to the medical simulation center and it’s going to be there. And so that was sort of a step two, was to look at it as an outside source as well. And I’m actually going to read off two, because this was a question that I got from an instructor at another college recently. And I’ll keep them anonymous at the moment as well. But I got a question about what software do you use? Now, we are way heavy in Acadicus. We’re way heavier than Acadicus. We use Acadicus more than we use probably anything else. But then there are other softwares that we use. And I should say, you know, I guess it’s not necessarily the place to share it here. But if there’s people that are interested in that, I’m more than happy to help out with that. But like, it’s one of those things where I had to look You know, someone would come in, I’ll give an example, just happened recently, our volleyball coach came in and said, hey, is there something in VR that will increase the response times for my volleyball players? Like, is there some way we can leverage VR in that way? And instead of going, oh, I’m sorry, I’m a paramedic, I don’t know anything about that. I was like, well, let’s take a look. Let’s take a look, because we have the hardware. So you want to leverage the software. We have the hardware. So let’s find it. And myself and Jeffrey Krentz, we kind of went through. We did find something that we were interested in. So we’re going to try to get a demo of that. So that’s the other thing is like, I try not to turn anybody away if they’re interested in VR. even though I’m going to have to learn some programs and stuff like that. The other thing to think of too, and then I’ll stop because I’ve been blathering on here, is some of the programs that you already use, that you already have licensure for in different departments, like architecture has licensure for architectural software that they already use. There’s probably a VR connector in it. They just need your hardware. So they need to be able to use your hardware. That’s it. That’s it. And I did that so many times because instructors would come to me and I’d say, well, what programs do you use currently in your, or what software do you use currently in your programs? And they’d say something like, oh, we use, you know, Chief Architect, whatever. And I’d go, oh, okay, well, let’s see if there’s a VR connector for that. And there’s a lot of VR connectors for a lot of the programs you already have licensure for. So, you know, that’s, you’re, you’re already four steps ahead in that sense.

Mitch Luker:
Well, and even just YouTube going kind of tying on the bill. Like, I mean, YouTube, are you kidding me? You can literally go on YouTube and type in 360 and then whatever you’re looking for, and you’re going to find videos and maybe it’s not the exact perfect thing you’re looking for, but you’re going to find things that you can use. In fact, our public safety. for our police officer students, they’re the ones who, so they’ve been going through and finding empathy videos. So like ones that have like these human emotional experiences because as one of our instructors says, I like to try to see if I can make these tough guys cry by sending the touches of their heart. It makes them feel like, it makes them realize like this is the struggle that someone else is going through. So you should have more empathy towards these people as you interact with them. Like, and he just got them off of YouTube. And, um, so, I mean, you can use things that are free. So like, and that you can apply into multiple, multiple fields of study with the hardware that you have.

Bill Ballo:
You can go see my father-in-law’s fireworks display on the 4th of July, uh, in a VR headset by going to YouTube. And then going to my YouTube channel, Balamedic. I’ve been playing around with the 360 camera. So I have a 360 that I’ve been playing around with a little bit more. Because we have another thing that came up, right? Our automotive people said, you know, could we use 360 video for some stuff? I’m like, yeah, we sure could. And the 360 cameras are cheap. They’re really good. I mean, really good, like 8K quality stuff. It’s not, you know, it’s not, you know, Bob’s camera or something like that. No offense to Bob. But this is really good technology. And I took it on the 4th of July to my father-in-law’s house to film our fireworks display.

Jon Brouchoud:
Well, I was going to say that’s kind of another dimension to it that’s pretty easy. I mean, here’s the camera you were just describing. It’s like an Insta360. It’s like, I don’t know, $399, I think it was. So not a huge investment, but all you do is put that on a tripod. You press one button and it captures from both sides and it stitches it together into a 360. And you just upload that to YouTube and you can have students put on the headset and watch that experience. So anything on your campus at all that you want to document in an immersive 360 experience, you just take this camera, put it together, you know, set it there, have somebody give a lecture, have them talk about what they’re doing, do a demonstration, then put the students in the headset. And it’s extremely immersive. Like you feel like you’re standing right back in that moment.

Mitch Luker:
Well, and you can even if you got permission from your hospital sites, you could go into a patient room and you could take and make a video of that for a 360 tour so that students before they come to a clinical site, especially like I think about, you know, some of the sites like mental health that has, you know, incredibly intense rules around like how they set up those rooms and being able to discuss those safety features that way students can be as safe as possible or at your hospitals, nursing homes, wherever you want them to go. And then students can come in and they can do a really great tour of their clinical site before they even get there.

Jon Brouchoud:
And this is the kind of conversation that you have when you have dedicated people who are thinking about this stuff all the time, right? Like if you just set up a VR lab and you don’t have anybody in there thinking about it, you’re not going to think, you know what, maybe we should get a $300 camera and start recording our automotive courses or, you know, these are the kinds of things. This is just an example. And this is not Acadicus to be sure. You know, we’re not talking about Acadicus. We’re just talking about how to leverage the investment you’re making in the hardware and the staff that you have available. to create all kinds of content that’s going to, you know, force multiplier for all your different programs.

Rick Casteel:
It’s like, it’s like trying to thinking you’re going to get a computer or a laptop just to do email. Right. I mean, these headsets, right. Well, obviously we’re driving you and, and, and once you learn how to leverage it, the Acadicus platform, there’s so much you can do, but there’s, you know, tons of other opportunity once you have this device in your organization. that you can do in a leverage. But just like we’ve been saying over and over, you need that expert experience, like, you know, Bill, who’s like, yeah, I’m going to go explore and see how I can help the volleyball team. Right. And, you know, Mitch, you know, at some point helping, you know, the veterinary group or whatever. Right. It’s just another tool that you’re using in your toolkit. that has all kinds of different sockets to it to fit the right thing that you’re trying to fix.

Bill Ballo:
And don’t forget to have some fun with it. Oh, sorry, Rick. Don’t forget to have some fun with it. When the women’s basketball team coach came in and said, what can we do? My initial thought was, well, let’s play basketball or let’s play miniature golf or let’s play, there’s all kinds of sport things we can do. She was like, yeah. I could read the room. I read immediately, I was like, You know what? No, you’re right. They do basketball all the time. They’re always at practice. They’re always working hard. They’re always doing basketball. Let’s do something different. And so I just found a couple of games that were team building style games on Meta. And they’re neat. They’re really cool. I’ll mention one, but it’s actually really funny. It’s keep talking and nobody explodes. And yeah, Jon knows it. That’s a great one. That’s an oldie too.

Jon Brouchoud:
That one was back in the old times they built that. That was a great game.

Bill Ballo:
It’s fantastic. And the the whole idea, obviously, somebody is in the headset, they’re trying to defuse a bomb. And there’s people outside of the headset who have the bomb defusing manual, but the manual is very cryptic. So like two or three of you have to get together to help figure out the manual. And then you have to communicate with the person who’s in the headset, who has to communicate with you, because you’re not seeing what they’re seeing, and they’re not seeing what you’re seeing.

Rick Casteel:
So there’s a way we can work this into Acadicus. There’s got to be, right? Somebody’s watching the screen with somebody in the headset and trying to give them physician orders, right? Yeah. There’s a communication thing there. There’s got to be. Yeah.

Bill Ballo:
Yeah, and we kind of did something similar when I saw, so we use a system called Classroom Live, it’s what people would probably call HyFlex, right? So the students can be at home, they can be in the classroom, and then the instructor is in a classroom, so that if the students do wanna come to the classroom, they can. And then I was at home, so this is everything that was going on. I was at home, and then one of our operators was in the next room over from the teaching room. There were students in the classroom, there were students at home. I was sharing my screen on, we were using WebEx, but you could do it on Zoom, you could do it on whatever. I was sharing my screen and I had the Acadicam in there so that it was a nice stable view. And then the instructor was in the classroom asking questions. to the students who are both in the classroom and at home. And then I was asking, because I was acting like I didn’t know what I was doing. And so I’m like, OK, I am so new to this. Y’all have to help me through this. And I was saying, okay, this patient has to take this medication and that medication. And I’m like, I don’t, what is this medication? I mispronounced it and I didn’t know what it was and all of that stuff. And the students and the instructor even said the students who are normally wallflowers, who do not turn their cameras on, who do not, you know, answer questions usually. He said they were engaged, like they had their camera on, They were answering questions because you were acting like you didn’t know what was going on. You kept mispronouncing all the medications and then they kept pronouncing them right for you. And, you know, and so I was having them guide me. as a new nurse into like, what should I do? And they were using that for a lecture thing. So there was that. So there’s so many layers to that, right? You have the learning of treating the patient. You have to communicate with the person who’s the nurse. they have to communicate back with you. Yes, they could see everything I was doing. But at the same time, they still had to be able to communicate well, and give me an idea of what I was supposed to do, because I messed it up all the time. I was like, Okay, so I’m going to give him this medication. So this is oral medication. They’re like, No, no, no, no, that’s going to be IV like, you know, Oh, okay, you know, so we just kind of, and it made it fun and it lasted for like a half an hour. And it was really great learning. And, you know, I used their case too. It was their case study that I used.

Rick Casteel:
That’s good stuff.

Jon Brouchoud:
Yeah, that is awesome.

Bill Ballo:
And that was, God, we did that a couple, like a year, year and a half ago. And they keep doing it. Let’s do it again. That was great. Let’s do it again. We’re going to do something similar at Goodman South with the birthing simulator, where the majority of the students are going to be like 15 students, and three of them will be in headset, and the other 12 will be watching. And the instructor was like, well, how do I get those 12 to help engage? And I said, well, have them start giving help and instructions. Have them join in. You know, why don’t you go in, the instructor, you go in and start asking questions. What should I do in this situation? Oh my gosh, the head’s coming. What do I have to do? What do I need to do? You know?

Mitch Luker:
It’s funny because I did today, I had a clinical group with me because the instructor needed a day off. So on our second day of clinical, and she was like, I got to be out. So today we played figure out the diagnosis. So they came in and I would just go in and I would tweak, uh, Millie and I would keep changing it. So like the first one we did was COPD. So I went in, I turned off my big screen and I made the tweaks and changes. So like I gave her all the signs as soon as she would need for COPD. So I turned on the big screen and we played a competition. So they divided up into teams and, um, if they could guess the diagnosis within X amount of time. So I’d give them five minutes to work on the assessment. And if they could guess the diagnosis first and that team got the points. And if not, then the other teams could steal points. And, um, and then we would talk about like, like we used, we actually used Acadicus probably for a total of 45 minutes out of our, uh, six hours together. And the rest of it was like, okay, so now that we figured out that this was COPD, now let’s talk about what, what would be the, the nursing diagnosis you would consider? What meds would you consider from your physician? What type of things would you do education wise? And then we went through CHF and we did stroke and hypertension, diabetes. And we just literally went through and because they were getting ready for their very first ever med surge clinical, They had to kind of literally, I was like, so, and I said, okay, now when you go to clinical, what are you going to think about? Like, how are you going to apply this to patients? As you’ve been thinking about all these things and what is, how are you going to use this for, so I liked the way you were talking about gamifying Bill, because it’s kind of what I did today with them is I just made it a game. And, um, there was one student who literally, I was like, Oh, she ain’t going to talk at all today. And she ended up being one of my most outspoken because she was really, really into that.

Bill Ballo:
Yeah. Well, so many times we think when it comes to, you know, lecture or theory courses, those kind of things, we have to stand up there and do the norm that we always do. Right. We do the PowerPoint or we have a discussion and or we have them do group work. And those are all fine. You know, those I mean, I sort of prefer not to stand and do a lecture. But not everybody’s there. And they have different ways. We all have different ways that we teach. But what you’re essentially doing by doing something like that is it’s a lecture. It’s a lecture course. It’s a lecture course. It’s a theory course. Because you’re going through all of the competencies that are expected for that day. So you just look at your competencies and go, hey, here are the competencies that I need to get through today. I usually just note them in my mind as to what I’m going to go over, but put them down on a piece of paper, whatever it may be. Put it on something that you can put into Acadicus, if that’s what you need. And then just run through the things that you want to run through, the information that you want to run through. And you’ve now changed your lecture to a much, much, much more engaging participation, rather than standing up there with the PowerPoint and going, OK, so You can read here that Millie has congestive heart failure and you can tell that her lung sounds are wet. See, this says it right there, says it. And you know, what are we going to do about that?

Rick Casteel:
And everybody’s just kind of sitting there like, we’re going to give medication to get the fluid off of her lungs.

Bill Ballo:
And it’s like, come on, you know, re-engage, be creative,

Mitch Luker:
They’re like me on a subway, dead behind the eyes.

Rick Casteel:
Well, Mitch, like you had demonstrated about a month or so ago here on SimPulse with that lecture you had recorded with, I’m sorry, what was her name? Rikki. Rikki. I should remember that, right? Rikki. I mean, that was golden. That’s awesome. You know, doing that kind of thing in there that can be repeated and can be used over and over again, or even doing a live lecture in the headset while the students are watching on the screen as you’re performing something. Like Bill’s saying, how much more engaging than a PowerPoint or something.

Mitch Luker:
Well, like giving the medicine, and because like Bill was talking about, like, see, the lungs are wet. I would give this medicine. It’s going to lower their pressure. But being able to like actually give the medicine and then show on the screen how much that pressure is going to come down. Because students don’t understand like, oh, if I give spironolactone, that’s only going to drop my blood pressure a little bit. And if I give, you know, hydrochlorothiazide, I’m going to get a little more. But if I give Lasix, then I’m going to get a much bigger drop. And so understanding like the different strengths of medicines, how well they work, what they do, and bringing it to life, because it’s one thing to be able to sit there and repeat it. But I can tell you how many times in clinical, I would get students at clinical and I’d be like, okay, so this patient has this, this, and this, what are we going to do? And they’re like, I would, and they kind of regurgitate things and like, okay, so what are we going to do? And then they just, they don’t, they can’t apply it because it’s been theoretical. And by making it concrete and bringing it to life, so that way they can see how it works. and what it means, that’s the most crucial part. That’s how you get that critical thinking to develop is by making it something that they can do something with versus this abstract thought of, oh, here’s the way that I would do things. But then when you ask them to actually do it, they can’t.

Jon Brouchoud:
Yeah, it’s a really good point. Well, we covered that topic pretty well. We went through all kinds of different things. One of the things I loved about what we were just talking about is not a single one of them was straight ahead traditional high-fidelity simulation. which you can do. You can do that in VR. You can do that with Acadicus. That’s what we built it for. But everything we’re talking about right now is just, you know what, what if we, what if we, maybe I could, what if I try to, maybe I could. And now we’ve got interactive lectures and you’ve got interactive lessons. You’ve got 3D recordings. You’re using it in your classroom. You’re using it in unconventional ways that we never as a team imagined would be used like this. Like we never, but it’s a tool. And when you build tools, You know, it’s like having a hammer. It’s like, you don’t look at the hammer and expect it’s going to build your house. You know, you, you have to learn, well, what can I do with this? And you, you can, you know, start to develop all these different things that you can do with the same tool. Um, and it’s, and these are emergent behaviors that I think are important. And I think the only, one of the biggest reasons why we wanted to build a sandbox tool set, because we’re so much more interested in what experts are going to do with it than what, you know, we can just go behind the curtain and like, let’s build something and then hope it works. It’s like, this is the exciting stuff, what you’re talking about, these emergent use cases, because we’re kind of, in a lot of ways, we’re collectively defining a new category. You know, it’s certainly stemming from an existing category of simulation. But to Bill’s point, it’s not just pure simulation. It’s also an opportunity for interactive lecture and all these other things. So it’s like we’re kind of building this new category of possibilities. And you’re not going to get to that without tinkering and trying and exploring and R&D. And that’s the kind of stuff you get when you’ve got that lab and you’ve got space to experiment and somebody to help build those experiments and try those things out. And have fun. Like Bill said, have fun. You know, it’s really because that’s the best part, right? Everybody, the students love coming in, they get excited about it. And that’s one of my favorite things about visiting all kinds of XR labs is like if the students come in there, they’re excited to be there. You know, I don’t remember that when I was in school, being that excited about anything. So that’s pretty cool.

Mitch Luker:
I knew exactly how many hours and days I could miss and pass.

Jon Brouchoud:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yep. And I love the practical application. You know, you’re using Acadicus to get these students thinking about practical things that actually are going to help them in their actual clinical experience. And, you know, that’s the kind of thing that we know simulation works. It’s been tried and true over decades. So if we can take that and expand it and keep on growing that possibility, All of the things that work about simulation, the reduced errors and the lives that are saved with it, I’d like to think that that’s going to come along with this, right? We’re expanding, we’re teasing that out of the boundaries of a traditional role and we’re kind of perforating those edges and getting it out into these other areas. And hopefully we’ll see those results continue to percolate, right? That we’re seeing fewer errors and we’re seeing students that are graduating and they’re getting into the field and they’re better at their jobs. And eventually, my fantasy is you get students that are in the field working, and the hospitals start to realize that the students that were taught in an interactive way with something like Acadicus are doing a better job of it. And eventually that gets back to the school and the school hears that and sees that, okay, this is really making these students truly understand this, this content in a more meaningful way. And if we can get to that point, I think that’s, then everybody wins. I think that’s kind of the main idea, the main objective here. So you got a little ways to go, you know, we’re just getting started, but that’s the goal anyway. Well, you guys have anything else we want to talk about today? Or should we cut it off early? Give ourselves an extra 20 minutes in our Friday afternoon.

Bill Ballo:
I don’t really have anything specific, so I’m good here.

Jon Brouchoud:
What’s infinity gauntlet, Rick?

Rick Casteel:
I should know. Marvel comics, the infinity war, infinity a few years ago.

Jon Brouchoud:
Oh yeah. Okay. I got you. Got you.

Rick Casteel:
This is the image from the original comic. Oh, cool.

Jon Brouchoud:
Yeah. Awesome. Very cool. Awesome. Well, I guess with that, we should just, we could call it. Have a great weekend, everyone. Good to see you all. I appreciate you coming. We’ll see you next Friday.